Rebuilding After the Malibu Fire with Sabrina Downing

In this episode of the "Tell Us How to Make It Better" podcast, host George Siegal interviews Sabrina Downing, a survivor of the devastating fire in Malibu, California in 2018. Sabrina’s story was first featured in the documentary film "The Last House Standing".  Sabrina shares the journey of rebuilding her house from scratch after it was completely burnt down.

Sabrina describes the challenges she faced, including the delays caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and the lengthy permit process, which took 18 months to complete. She explains the intricacies of dealing with her mortgage company and insurance company

The conversation also delves into the measures taken to make the new house fire-resistant, such as using fireproof materials and installing indoor sprinklers. Sabrina shares her husband's experience as a retired fireman and the precautions they have taken to be prepared for future fire threats.

Overall, this episode provides insights into the challenges and triumphs faced by survivors as they rebuild their lives after natural disasters, emphasizing the importance of resilience and preparedness.

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Transcript

00:00:00:16 - 00:00:25:02
George Siegal
Hi, everybody. I'm George Siegal Thank you so much for joining me on this week's Tell US How to Make It Better Podcast. When I made my documentary film The Last House Standing after Hurricane Michael in 2018 and the big fires out in Malibu and Paradise, California, the same year, we went around and talked to the victims of the disaster and heard their stories and what they experienced afterwards.

00:00:25:02 - 00:00:47:13
George Siegal
But we didn't get the whole rebuilding experience because we had to leave town and deal with that film. So I'm trying to go back and revisit what it's been like for some of these people, and the stories are just unbelievable in what it's taken for them to rebuild their homes. One of the people we spoke with back then was Sabrina Downing, whose house in Malibu, California, was burnt completely to the ground.

00:00:47:20 - 00:01:07:15
George Siegal
And we did the interview on the slab where her house used to be. Now, a lot of time has passed since then and they've had quite an experience getting things back together. So my guest today is Sabrina and she's going to talk about what that road back to normal has been like. I'm George Siegal And this is the Tell US How to Make It Better podcast.

00:01:07:23 - 00:01:26:22
George Siegal
Your home is probably your biggest investment, and every week we show you warning signs and solutions to help you protect it. Tell us how to make it better. Is partnering with the Readiness Lab, the Home for podcasts webinars and training in the field of emergency and disaster services. Sabrina, thank you so much for joining me today.

00:01:28:02 - 00:01:29:04
Sabrina Downing
Thank you for having me.

00:01:29:16 - 00:01:47:13
George Siegal
Now, when we last were with you, we were standing on an empty scraped lot where your house used to be and a lot of time has passed. Tell us from the moment we were there and we were there, obviously, before anything had started to be rebuilt. What's this process been like for you?

00:01:48:01 - 00:02:34:20
Sabrina Downing
Well, the process was super hard due to the fact that COVID hit. So it kind of made things a little bit delayed with meetings and progressive people coming out. And so that kind of put a little damper in the situation. But overall, we worked through that and we went through the permit process, which I think was probably the hardest process of all that took approximately 18 months to do and get.

00:02:35:03 - 00:03:11:16
Sabrina Downing
And basically, we were just doing the like to like that we were building and we did get to 10%, which they gave us that option. And it would be supposedly more of that expedited kind of situation. So we did that, and it still took quite a while. And we used the same footprints and we did change things inside and to our liking.

00:03:12:06 - 00:03:52:24
Sabrina Downing
But overall, the footprint was pretty much the same. And and then the rebuild happened after we got approved for our permit. And that was an exciting process. We rented a house down the street. So we were pretty close to the rebuild. And so we were here quite a bit for that, seeing the progress. And that was exciting. It gave us something to do, especially with COVID, where people were locked down and you couldn't do anything.

00:03:52:24 - 00:04:28:03
Sabrina Downing
So we we had somewhere to go, which would be coming to see our house built. And so and had a lot of time to think about things on my walks and in that journey, just brainstorming things of how to make things different and, and, you know, and I think that that was that was great. And we actually, from start to finish on our rebuild, it only took eight months.

00:04:28:17 - 00:04:46:22
George Siegal
Now our people that we a lot of people that we spoke with, Sabrina, the main problems they had were getting permits and with insurance companies actually paying the claim. The mayor of Malibu is still litigating over his over his insurance claim. So what was that process like for you?

00:04:48:03 - 00:05:14:05
Sabrina Downing
Well, I think that it all depends on we still had a mortgage on. So we had to go through the mortgage company along with the insurance companies. So we were only able to get a little bit out at each time from our mortgage company. So like our contractor would be say, okay, we need to get paid. I need to get paid every two weeks.

00:05:14:13 - 00:05:40:20
Sabrina Downing
That was the contract. And in order for us to pay him, the mortgage company had to release money for the for what has happened. So say if you went in two weeks and he needed to get paid for like the flooring and if they if they didn't see any progress, then they wouldn't be able to give you another payout.

00:05:41:04 - 00:06:10:10
Sabrina Downing
Then that would have been making the contract and all the building just completely like stale like we wouldn't be able to move forward. So the process and then you have to have an inspector out to make sure things are going as planned and if things are progressing. But that was not able to happen. So I was the one that was the inspector I had to go in and send due to COVID.

00:06:10:17 - 00:06:32:09
Sabrina Downing
Nobody could come to the house. So I had to take pictures and show that there was progress from week to week to week on my phone in order to get that. But on the other side of the also, we had a we had Allstate Insurance. And I think that there weren't many people in Malibu that had that. But we had been here for a long time.

00:06:32:09 - 00:07:05:03
Sabrina Downing
We were grandfathered in and it was hard at first until they saw that it was a complete, total loss. And once they saw that, then they were being a little bit better to work with. But the catastrophic agent that we got with was in New York, which was kind of hard because, you know, we had to deal with phone calls, which was different time zone.

00:07:05:03 - 00:07:31:08
Sabrina Downing
And and so, you know, it was really hard dealing with that. Plus, then, you know, she's paying the rental of our place that we were staying at. So it was a lot of phone calls and a lot of, you know, with all that was it was just very time consuming. But in the in the long run, it worked out and.

00:07:32:04 - 00:07:49:14
George Siegal
It's it's a miserable experience all around. I mean, it's really hard to put a happy face on it. But what's interesting is, you know, the American dream of, oh, pay off your mortgage. I think having a mortgage actually helped people because an insurance company is much less likely to fight a mortgage company than they are a little old

00:07:49:14 - 00:07:56:10
George Siegal
You and you and your husband, it's at least you have somebody on your side that has a vested interest in seeing the project get finished.

00:07:56:22 - 00:08:33:18
Sabrina Downing
Right. Right. So, you know, you just had to battle both of those. The you know, it was just it was just like this fine balance, you know, that had to happen. And and and I was basically the one that was doing that, you know. So it was a lot, you know, it like I said, it kept me busy, kept me on my toes and so but you know, in the scheme that all things I mean, we had an amazing house that we came back to two years little over two years from when it burnt down.

00:08:34:10 - 00:08:55:08
George Siegal
Now guest. a few weeks ago is a gentlemen who lived, or lives down in Naples Florida where Hurricane Ian flooded his house and he had to have his house rebuilt. And I asked him what he did to build it differently, so it wouldn't happen again and the answer was they didn't do anything, they just rebuilt. Did you do anything to make your house safer from fires.

00:08:56:16 - 00:09:25:03
Sabrina Downing
Yeah. Due to the code upgrades, everything had to be somewhat, you know, fireproof. And all the materials that they use now are different, you know, and we basically do have vegetation, you know, not right completely, you know, on the property. I mean, we do have grass. We went back with some of the you know, some of our trees actually stayed.

00:09:25:03 - 00:09:52:01
Sabrina Downing
I mean, we the two palm trees that are pretty fire, you know, they're they go up in fire. They they lived in our front yard. They're pretty big. And we kept those. And then we just added other vegetation. But pretty much it was just most of the materials that we used. And we have indoor spring sprinklers now. So that was a code that we had to have.

00:09:52:17 - 00:10:16:04
Sabrina Downing
So so we used a lot of what that would have helped I guess who knows if it would have like saved the house or not. But, but now that that's a regulation, we had to put them in. So that basically I don't besides that there's nothing we really I don't think did you know any differently.

00:10:16:16 - 00:10:34:03
George Siegal
So how does that help you with your mindset now when we come up to you know, there's been a lot of rain in California this year, so there's been a lot of growth in the hills and everything's going to be really overgrown going into fire season. How does that make you guys feel security wise? Because there's always that threat.

00:10:34:03 - 00:10:41:01
George Siegal
I grew up out there and we were always concerned. It wasn't for the forefront concern. You know, you kind of just laugh it off.

00:10:41:13 - 00:10:41:18
Sabrina Downing
Right?

00:10:42:00 - 00:10:46:07
George Siegal
We wouldn't do that now. So how are you guys prepared? What's the mindset?

00:10:46:07 - 00:11:16:15
Sabrina Downing
Well, I don't know, really. I mean, you just have you're more aware of like, you know, weather. I mean, we my husband is a retired fireman. He stayed he fought the fire. We had water. We live in in an area in Malibu where our water was not an issue. My husband hooked up to a fire hydrant. We had that.

00:11:16:15 - 00:11:42:18
Sabrina Downing
He was by himself. So it's not like we had any resource. But I mean, he did all he could. Now, if we had more manpower and meaning that fire department would actually that they if they came, I think a lot of the homes would have been saved. But as far as what we did, we did everything that we could at that time.

00:11:42:18 - 00:12:11:14
Sabrina Downing
And and I and I don't think that it is you know, it was just so random that, you know, one house burned, the other one didn't. And and the only thing I can think of our house was a little bit on the older side. We never remodeled. We were here like 20 plus years. The houses that didn't not burn near us, literally next door were ones that actually had been remodeled.

00:12:11:19 - 00:12:40:02
Sabrina Downing
The outside paint, the inside and they didn't they didn't go down. So there must have been something to the fact of that. Plus, this time we did close our eaves, so our eyes were open. And those are the type of things that if an ember gets in your roof in an eve, then that can it's smolders and then that's what can start the roof, you know, on fire.

00:12:40:10 - 00:12:45:09
Sabrina Downing
So that is one thing that we did. We closed our Eves to make that not happen.

00:12:45:24 - 00:13:01:05
George Siegal
Do you guys give any thought to like a spray foam thing where you could spray your house if a fire was coming? I know we featured that in the in the last house standing. I know those things aren't necessarily cheap, but did you guys consider that going forward?

00:13:02:12 - 00:13:36:13
Sabrina Downing
Yes. So we have our neighborhood is we have a homeowners association. And so since our neighborhood lost quite a few houses, we set up a fire brigade and put money towards these boxes that are sitting on several different properties near fire hydrants. Now, these boxes have the the foam in it, the spray foam that we can access to.

00:13:36:24 - 00:14:16:00
Sabrina Downing
They have hoses to hook up to the fire hydrant and the keys to make that happen. And people are being prepared. We have monthly meetings and get togethers of practicing how to put out fires in if that were to ever happen again. Our neighborhoods very hard to get to one way in and one way out? So very likely that we probably would not have assistance unless we had helicopters come in.

00:14:16:22 - 00:14:31:03
Sabrina Downing
So, I mean, I would say that we would just get together and and do what we could for as long as it's safe, safe, you know, and move forward that way. But, yes, we do have we are prepared a little bit more now.

00:14:31:17 - 00:14:49:14
George Siegal
Now, human nature is such that people like you who were clearly victimized by this, you're going to have one sense of heightened awareness and preparation. The people who missed it and dodged a bullet almost feel a little more invincible. Do you sense a difference among the people who were damaged versus the people who were not?

00:14:51:00 - 00:15:16:05
Sabrina Downing
I do you know, it's it's a different I mean, I get that people had PTSD from the whole experience, whether you have a burn out or not. But I think it is a very different feeling when you've had everything that you lost everything you know, a house, like I said, is a house, but a home is a home.

00:15:16:05 - 00:15:36:09
Sabrina Downing
And, you know, you could always rebuild and make better and which a lot of people like look at you like, well, at least you got a great house out of it and you got everything you wanted out of it and you made it the way you want. I'm like, Yes, I get that. But it's it's the things that were in the house that you can't bring back.

00:15:36:09 - 00:15:56:23
Sabrina Downing
And I think that is what I'm experiencing that that that's hard opposed to people that didn't have that when their house burned down. They still have their pictures they still have their memories and memorabilia and stuff like that. And so there is a disconnect, I think, right there with that.

00:15:57:17 - 00:16:18:21
George Siegal
Absolutely. There's things you just can't replace from a disaster. And and nobody wants that kind of disruption for as long as your life is disrupted. I mean, COVID was disrupting enough on its own, but now factor in what you had to go through. That's that's just it seems overwhelming. Now, did you ever give any thought to moving somewhere else and just getting out of that area?

00:16:20:05 - 00:16:51:12
Sabrina Downing
No. I mean, we love it here. Everybody was super supportive. You know, it was amazing. The people that came out to help, you know, get us back with clothing and shoes and just being there for us, it was just like an amazing feeling that that support, regardless of where you live, you just never know. But that support was there.

00:16:51:12 - 00:17:23:21
Sabrina Downing
And and we love it here. And I, I don't I mean, we've lived here so long and we've had a few encounters that we, you know, there were fire fires nearby and we had to evacuate. But but it was this was like the big one, you know. So I don't I don't think I don't think I have that that I would ever move anywhere else.

00:17:23:21 - 00:17:24:03
Sabrina Downing
Now.

00:17:25:08 - 00:17:43:24
George Siegal
How could you explain the feeling when you wake up the day after your house burns down and you realize all all that you're lost? Most people say, well, it's never going to happen to me. I think if they truly understand what you went through, they would they wouldn't necessarily need to have it happen to them to maybe wake up and do something about it.

00:17:44:07 - 00:17:50:04
George Siegal
What would you tell people to to wake them up and realize, hey, we need to be prepared for this kind of stuff?

00:17:51:12 - 00:18:18:08
Sabrina Downing
Um, I mean, most of the people that are in know me and and know what I went through. I think that they you know, they know that they would like to be prepared. But I would say that you're never you're never really prepared, even if you think you're prepared, you're not. Because you just it's out of sight, out of mind.

00:18:18:14 - 00:18:49:05
Sabrina Downing
I mean, unless you've experienced it, it's something that you would never think that, oh, I should have done that or I should have got that. And when you're in it and you're in, you're literally being evacuated within 5 minutes, your mind is just you're not even thinking correct. And you're like normal, you know? And so all you want to get out is yourself and, you know,  your family.

00:18:49:05 - 00:19:09:23
Sabrina Downing
And if you have pets and and that's what we did. And that's all I could say is, is that we're all alive and and we didn't have to suffer any of that. So, yeah, I don't I don't it's really hard to to say that for sure, you know, to tell people that.

00:19:10:17 - 00:19:20:19
George Siegal
No doubt, did your insurance skyrocket after this? Did they? Because a lot of people in Florida after hurricanes and it's tough to get insurance down here for a lot of folks. What's it like in Malibu?

00:19:22:09 - 00:19:58:17
Sabrina Downing
Well, our insurance, like I said, was pretty amazing. And we, you know, all the only thing that we did, our insurance didn't go up much except for the fact that it is a bigger house and it's brand new and everything's new. So we we wanted to make our, you know, everything go up a little bit, you know, for what our insurance was because of the square footage was a little bit more and then everything's new inside.

00:19:58:17 - 00:20:27:08
Sabrina Downing
So we did add more insurance to our policy. So we, we are paying a little bit more, but it didn't skyrocket and they didn't get rid of us, which I think a lot of people that didn't have burnouts, that made claims they did. I heard they did drop them. But but since we've had them forever, we've kind of like grandfathered in.

00:20:27:08 - 00:20:28:17
Sabrina Downing
Like that didn't happen to us.

00:20:29:01 - 00:20:41:20
George Siegal
Sabrina, if you had one tip to give people so they could have some way of preparing at least better than what they're probably doing right now for any kind of disaster that might come their way, what would you tell them?

00:20:41:20 - 00:21:11:19
Sabrina Downing
Well, I would tell them to go through their insurance policy and make sure they they know exactly how much it would be to for a full rebuild and when there is a catastrophic loss. And then not only that, but then look at your contents of that amount. And and and if it's if if that is not correct or that it needs to be ad you would need to add more insurance.

00:21:11:19 - 00:21:42:18
Sabrina Downing
I would do that just because in this day and age, everything's more money for building purposes and buying things. You know, everything's like so much more. And, you know, because we had lived here for like 20 plus years. So I wanted, you know, who who goes back and looks at their policy to make sure that you're set if need be, that you have to go through something like this.

00:21:43:21 - 00:22:03:13
George Siegal
Well, that's what people, I think don't always realize the number one goal that I've sensed with insurance, whether it's medical or whether it's with your house or your car. Their goal is to find ways not to pay you if everything's not right and you need to make it as easy as possible for them with documenting everything, understanding what you have, because if you don't, there's really nobody looking out for you, is there?

00:22:04:12 - 00:22:49:07
Sabrina Downing
No. And that's one thing. If you have very cautious things, I, I that's one thing I didn't do. But maybe even if I did do it and whatever it is that go through with a video and go through your whole house and what you have because you know, when you have to write that list of everything that's in your house, like from 1 to 1000, and try to remember how many like you know, you know, like whatever jewelry boxes you had, how many rings you had, how many, like, necklaces, like, you know, it gets, it's, it's it's down to that that it's you have to write stuff down.

00:22:49:07 - 00:22:59:11
Sabrina Downing
And so I think a video would be great and but you got to make sure that you got to take that with you once you once you leave the house, when there's a issue, you know.

00:23:00:08 - 00:23:16:08
George Siegal
Absolutely. Well, hey, Sabrina, you were so gracious when we were out there right after the disaster. And I appreciate you coming on and and sharing this now. And I wish you guys a success maintaining now a normal life and hoping not to have to deal with this again in the future.

00:23:16:20 - 00:23:18:15
Sabrina Downing
Yes, definitely.

00:23:18:15 - 00:23:19:16
George Siegal
All right. Thanks, Sabrina.

00:23:20:01 - 00:23:20:21
Sabrina Downing
All right. Thank you.

00:23:21:07 - 00:23:44:23
George Siegal
Thank you for joining me today on the tell us how to make a better podcast. If you liked what you were listening to, please become a regular subscriber or share the link with your friends and even leave a review. There's also a contact form in the show notes and you can fill that out. If you have had an experience with recovering from a disaster, preparing for one, or just building or remodeling your house, please fill out the form and get in touch with me.

00:23:45:04 - 00:23:56:10
George Siegal
And I'd love to share your story on the podcast. There's also a link to my film, The Last House Standing, and I'd love for you to check that out as well. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.