Homeowners Be Aware

Sanibel's Story of Survival and the Road to Recovery with James Evans

• George Siegal • Season 2 • Episode 120

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January 30, 2024

120. Sanibel's Story of Survival and the Road to Recovery with James Evans

Hurricane Ian left its mark on Sanibel Island, and today, we're diving into what comes next with James Evans, CEO of the Sanibel Captiva Conservation Foundation. 

Through personal narratives and community resilience, we explore the challenges of rebuilding post-disaster. From redevelopment disputes to the emotional toll on residents, our conversation exposes the complexities faced by Sanibel Island.

We confront tough questions about coastal living and the realities of hurricane threats. Navigating insurance hurdles and legislative complexities, we offer insight into the ongoing struggles of homeowners in high-risk areas.

Looking ahead, we discuss the importance of transparency in real estate, stringent building codes, and the battle against unfair insurance practices. This episode serves as a call to action for consumer protection and guides those rebuilding after a storm.

Join us as we uncover the spirit of adaptation and resilience in the face of adversity. Tune in to discover the untold stories of survival and the unwavering determination of a community determined to thrive once more.

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George Siegal:

In today's podcast episode, you are going to learn what life is like after a major disaster wipes out your community. Sanibel Island was one of the most beautiful places you will ever visit. I imagine it was pretty incredible for the people who lived there too. But in late September of 2022, southwest Florida was hit by Hurricane Ian and it caused an unbelievable amount of damage. I was down there recently as part of the documentary film I'm working on called Built to Last Buyer Beware.

George Siegal:

This area is a tragic example of what happens when older homes meet a powerful hurricane. My guest is James Evans, the CEO of Sanibel Captiva Conservation Foundation. We talked about what it was like living through the hurricane and now trying to get life back to normal. I'm George Siegal, and this is Homeowners Be Aware the podcast that teaches you everything you need to know about being a homeowner. James, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me Now. You live in an area that was a major bullseye for Hurricane Ian. You live and you work in that area. Tell us what it was like when the hurricane hit down there.

James Evans:

Yes, so it seems like it was just yesterday when Hurricane Ian hit Southwest Florida. Of course, I am the CEO of the Sanibel Captiva Conservation Foundation and we're a small nonprofit on Sanibel Island. We own and manage about 2,000 acres of land and we have a marine lab. We have habitat management. We do a lot of conservation work and water quality work in the area.

James Evans:

So when Hurricane Ian hit, I not only needed to prepare my own family for the event, but I also needed to prepare 40 employees that lived and worked in the region prior to the storm impacting us, and it was somewhat surreal. We didn't have a lot of notice. The hurricane was tracking to hit north, well north of us. Tampa Tallahassee area is where it was going and very similar to Hurricane Charlie, which hit Sanibel and Captiva Islands back in 2004, the storm wobbled. Within that last kind of 48 hours the storm started to change course and really started tracking towards the Fort Myers area.

James Evans:

At that point we were getting notice from the Lee County Board of County commissioners to evacuate. City of Sanibel issued an evacuation order At that point, when you have worked tirelessly to prepare all of your employees and everyone and your properties. We own and manage a lot of land but we also have seven different campuses where we have different staff working, so we had to prepare all those buildings. Pretty much ran out of time to go ahead and get out of Dodge and evacuate the area so unfortunately we had to hunker down For people who don't know that area.

George Siegal:

Everything's at sea level there, pretty much. There's no hills, there don't seem to be very many elevated areas, so when you have a storm surge, it pretty much covers everything, doesn't it?

James Evans:

Yes, so we're a barrier island. Here on Sanibel and Captiva Islands, Average elevation is about four, four and a half feet and we experienced about 12 feet of storm surge 11 feet on average, but it was a significant impact, and so if you have an average elevation of four and a half feet, you're looking at over six feet of storm surge sitting on top of the landscape.

George Siegal:

Now, for people who have been there, they know these places. But for people who haven't, there's a huge market, bailey supermarket. There's a lot of restaurants that when you go to those places you figure you're pretty far from the water at that point and you can't even imagine that that would flood. You could understand how the things in front, but a lot of places inland were severely damaged, if not destroyed.

James Evans:

Yes, the Bailey's general store was wiped out. In fact they just demoed the entire shopping center and it's going to be rebuilt more resilient. But, yeah, areas that you thought would have been okay because of the distance from the shoreline, they were impacted as well. And we know that the natural systems on the island that have adapted over long periods of time to these natural disturbances such as hurricanes and wildfires and flood events the natural systems actually did pretty good and they actually protected a lot of the infrastructure on the island. But the storm surge itself, you know, with 11 feet of water, you know, coming up and covering the landscape, that is something that most people on the islands didn't expect. The last time the islands flooded to that degree was back during the 1926 storm, which again very similar to Hurricane Ian. Not only did the winds impact the structures on the island, but the storm surge and endation wiped out agriculture, all the agriculture on the island, and that's what converted us from an agricultural economy to a tourism-based economy.

George Siegal:

Now, as far as building codes, a lot of the structures there were made of wood. It wasn't a concrete island by any stretch of the imagination, so is there anything that did better than other things, If there were things that were made out of concrete? I saw a lot of houses that looked like nice homes that had significant damage when I was down there.

James Evans:

Yes, so the wood structures that weren't built to the current hurricane code, especially those codes that were modified or changed after Hurricane Andrew hit Miami, those were the homes that were probably impacted the most, Even if they were elevated structures. Those homes that were not built to the current hurricane code suffered greatly, especially the ground level homes that were built in the 70s and 80s. Those homes that weren't built to hurricane standards were not only flooded but took on a lot of wind damage as well.

George Siegal:

Now, even if you have a concrete house and we're making a film called Built to Last, buy or Beware, which we were down there and we interviewed you for so you have a concrete home, it's on the beach, but if you have 15, 20 feet of storm surge, or 10 feet of storm surge, it still can do quite a bit of damage, can't it?

James Evans:

Absolutely so. Even if your home is at ground elevation and you build it to hurricane standards, if you have five, six, eight feet of saltwater in your home, there's a good chance that you're going to have to completely gut that home and more than likely you will not be able to rebuild that home because of the FEMA 50% rule.

George Siegal:

Depending on how old your house is right. If you were already built to code, then you could just fix it. If you had a current code concrete house.

James Evans:

If that home is actually above the FEMA flood elevation, correct. But if it's not above the FEMA flood elevation, then you would not be able to rebuild that home unless you built it above flood elevation. And I can tell you firsthand that even homes that were built to the current FEMA flood elevation, which a 12 feet of storm surge that 12 feet of storm surge could have been a foot to a foot and a half above the FEMA flood elevation in some areas.

George Siegal:

Now what are the people doing that had all those condos and duplexes? There were a lot of places that were multi-unit places that had ground floors and above. Are they having to completely tear them down? Has that just shut them down permanently?

James Evans:

So many of the condos on the islands they are rebuilding. So if they had ground floor condos, those ground floor condos that are below flood elevation would not be able to be rebuilt. But the condominiums that are above the FEMA flood elevation and built to the current code can handle the wind, can handle the surge. Those condos are being rebuilt. Some of the condos along the gulf that suffered significant damage are being torn down and rebuilt to new standards.

George Siegal:

Now what is the controversy? Where do things stand? In Captiva, where I know one particular place, they were trying to rebuild it with a much bigger footprint and on a barrier island with one way off. Adding a lot more structures kind of sounds counterintuitive to a smart move.

James Evans:

Yes, I completely agree with you on that statement. So currently there is a development on the north end of Captiva called the South Seas Island Resort and it's been a wonderful resort. It's provided a lot of great memories for people that have visited Captiva and stayed and visited and vacationed on Captiva Island. It was zoned at three units per acre and following Hurricane Ian they lost a number of the buildings on South Seas and they approached the Lee County Board of County Commissioners right after Hurricane Ian with a proposal to rebuild. They did not.

James Evans:

At that time they didn't have a fully big plan, but the county moved forward with amending the land development code and the comprehensive land use plan the Lee plan to eliminate the density requirements at South Seas Island Resort, not for the entire island of Captiva, just simply for the South Seas Island Resort. It also increased the height for which all of Captiva would be able to build back. Of course we recognize that if you're going to build to current FEMA standards you do have to elevate those buildings, but what they're proposing is to go significantly higher than to get just above the FEMA flood elevation. They're going to go as high as 64 feet, as what the proposal indicates, and they're going from 248 units or so up to 707 units. So they're dramatically increasing the density and intensity of use at South Seas Island Resort.

James Evans:

Under the false flag of resiliency, they're suggesting that what they're doing is primarily to build back more resiliently. But if they want to build back more resiliently on a barrier island that is subject to future storm events and flooding, they would hold the line on density, not increase that density and put more people in harm's way that have to use, as you stated earlier, one road in and one road out. We don't have the infrastructure to support such a development. We can barely handle the amount of people that are on the islands now, and that's with 70% of Sanibel being in conservation. Could you imagine if the entire island was developed instead of just roughly 30% of the island, on top of what's going on on Captiva? So we're really concerned. Our community is very concerned. We have unanimous opposition and over 13,000 people signed a petition and opposition to the development that's being proposed out there.

George Siegal:

And do you think you guys are going to win?

James Evans:

Well, we just filed a petition to challenge the county on legal grounds that the land development code is not consistent with the LEAP plan and we're going to continue to move forward. Again, we have unanimous support and we're currently moving forward with all legal options that we have.

George Siegal:

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that that kind of thing would happen. I mean, obviously, whenever there's a bad situation, there's people that try to capitalize on it for their own good. I was struck, driving around there, by just how different it felt. There almost seemed to be a layer of I don't know what that stuff is that's covering things. There was a lot of bugs, but I hear it's coming back. I mean, it was my favorite place to go in Florida, but it just felt different right now. How far do you guys think you are from being back to some semblance of normal? So we're coming along.

James Evans:

I think the challenge is going to be the time it takes to redesign and rebuild a condo along the beach or rebuild a resort that was completely leveled. We've got the oldest resort on the island Island Inn is in the process of rebuilding their entire. They have a few buildings that made it through the storm that were built to current hurricane standards, but all of the old cottages and wooden infrastructure that they had there the Kimbell Lodge and some of the other buildings there that were impacted. It's going to take them a long time to rebuild those, probably two to three years. So we're confident that we'll have a large number of resorts coming up over the next two years, but I think in order to get fully up, we're looking at probably three to five years to be back to where we were prior to hurricane.

George Siegal:

And what is the building standard, what's the wind code and the height restriction or what's the FEMA flood level?

James Evans:

Yeah, so I would have to look at the specific wind codes, but I think there's somewhere around 180, 185 miles per hour, I believe, is where the city of Santa Bell's wind codes sit. And of course, the FEMA flood elevation varies throughout the island depending where you are on the island. So there isn't. Fema came out with new flood maps just recently, so it really depends on where you are on the island and it's interesting.

George Siegal:

when we were down there, the amount of traffic with all the contractors coming onto the island and going and coming is not as easy as it once was. I mean, during the summer it would be crowded normally just with people that were anxious to get there. Now there's a lot of other people that are coming out there to do work.

James Evans:

Yeah, so the sheer volume of people on the island is making it really challenging for well, not only the contractors are trying to rebuild the resorts and residential homes and businesses on the island, but it's making it very difficult for the people that live and work on the islands as well, that have spent decades here, like myself, working on the islands.

James Evans:

I live about two miles from the Santa Bell causeway and it is taking me anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half to drive into the office, whereas normally it would take me 10 to 15 minutes to get to work in the morning. Because of the sheer volume of people coming on and off the islands, it's making it challenging. And then all of our staff that leave in the late afternoon or evening. It's taking them anywhere from an hour and a half on a good day and if they live in places like Cape Coral or Lehigh or other parts of Southern Leigh County, it can take them three hours to get home from work. So you imagine what that's doing to people's morale and the people that are coming and going to the island. And not only that, you're sitting in traffic, you're burning fossil fuels sitting in traffic to get on the islands. It's challenging, especially for someone who employs 40 people on the island.

George Siegal:

Are there restaurants open out there? Did any place get back open?

James Evans:

There are. We've got a number of restaurants on the island that are open now. We've got Doc Fords, we've got traders, we've got mudbugs, we've got the Santa Bell Deli. We've got a number of restaurants that are coming on and they're busy. When you walk in there they're hustling and bustling and we're glad to see that they're really starting to come back.

George Siegal:

Now my wife is on a Santa Bell website and people are posting amazing pictures of shells that they're finding because there aren't as many people there. So it's actually a vacation opportunity for somebody who really wants to have less of a crowd, I guess.

James Evans:

Absolutely. Santa Bell is a special place, not only because we've been able to preserve 70% of the island for wildlife and wildlife habitat, but because of the character of the island, especially with Santa Bell and Captiva, our white sandy beaches, our shells, the shell capital of North America. The challenge right now is finding accommodations where you can stay. Vrbos and other opportunities like that will allow you to stay on the islands, but right now it's just the challenge of trying to find accommodations on the island. But our doors are open, we're welcoming people and if you want to come to an island where there's wonderful opportunities for families to enjoy the wonderful natural environment, Santa Bell and Captiva are the place to come.

George Siegal:

Now, is that conservation drive-through area open yet? Or the Shell Museum?

James Evans:

Yeah, so the Dingarly National Wildlife Refuge has a wildlife drive. It is open. The Shell Museum is currently under construction. They're doing a major remodel following Hurricane Ian and they'll be open very soon. I think they're shooting to have their doors open by March, so I know they're working diligently to complete their remodel.

George Siegal:

Now a lot of people visit there. We would be talking to less people who actually live there, but when you get across into Fort Myers you get across to places where you live and all those areas around there. There were pockets of significant damage. So even the workers that are coming to work they had to deal with all this mess away from the island where they live. How's everybody doing with that?

James Evans:

Yes, so not only did the workers you know, including myself and many of our staff you know they were, you know we had to come to work Two days after the storm. We were on the island helping our island recovery, helping with the island recovery, you know, helping to restore our properties, getting them back online, but our staff were working to also, you know, put together their lives and rebuild their homes and you know some of us still have construction projects that are going on at our own homes where we're trying to, you know, complete construction projects and things like that. So, yeah, it's been a challenge and, of course, dealing with the traffic on top of trying to do the projects at your own home and rebuild the facilities that we need to to run and operate our organization. It's been a challenge, for sure.

James Evans:

And, of course, you know places like Fort Myers Beach and Matlachet, who were equally, if not more, devastated than some of our areas, like Santa Mel and Captiva, are still recovering. If you drive to Fort Myers Beach today, it looks nothing like the Fort Myers Beach prior to Hurricane Ian. So you know it hurts. Go out to them and you know we're one community Santa Bel, captiva, fort Myers Beach, pine Island, greater Fort Myers area. We're all one community and we're all working together to rebuild.

George Siegal:

Yeah, fort Myers Beach was was dismal, I guess you could say. It looked like I mean they're still cleaning up it was. I was shocked by how long a road it looks like they have there.

James Evans:

Yes, if you want to figure out what Santa Bel could have looked like after Hurricane Ian if it were developed instead of 70, 70% of it being in conservation. Look to Fort Myers Beach. Fort Myers Beach is highly developed. A lot of the structures there were built in the 70s and 80s and many of them were just raised completely leveled from the landscape following Hurricane Ian and they are, you know, really struggling to come back and rebuild. Places like Margaritaville have come online, you know, since the storm, so we're starting to see people coming there and people are really, really excited to get back to Fort Myers Beach. People people love, you know, the beach environment. That's the. You know the character that Fort Myers Beach had prior to Hurricane Ian and they're working really hard to bring back Fort Myers Beach but, there's a lot of support for that community and hopefully they'll be coming back online over the next several years.

George Siegal:

Yeah, and we always talk about the extended consequences of a disaster. So we interviewed this couple in Fort Myers Beach. Their house is not livable and it's going to be a long time before they if they ever get back in there. But their son goes to school on Santa Bell. It's an hour and a half to school each way. If they have to drive them their son, imagine that as a parent now you've got a three hour commitment to get your child to school, three hours to get them home if they have after school activities. I mean, this is life altering in so many ways that most people don't think about.

James Evans:

It is, and it's hard to believe that it was, you know, a year and a half ago or so, that hurricane Ian, you know, hit our, hit our shores. And it is, it is life altering the. You know, adding an hour and a half or two hours to your commute every day has a tremendous impact on your quality of life. And, you know, especially when you're living in a neighborhood where every day, you walk your dog or you write, you know, you ride around the neighborhood with your family on your bike and you see homes that are you know, you know that are, that are being demolished, or homes that are still in a dilapidated state that never came back. It is, you know, it has an impact on your psychology of you and your community.

George Siegal:

I guess I would ask you then is and you know I live in Florida too, but I sometimes I scratch my head and I go is it worth it? When that happens to you, I know a lot of people can justify it before the disaster because you're living in paradise and everything seems great. But once you're living in the disaster aftermath, is it worth it?

James Evans:

Yeah, I think that's, you know, a question that each individual has to ask themselves. You know, in my situation, you know I live in close proximity to the coast, not on the water, but pretty close proximity to the coast. So that allows me to get to Santa Bella and kept to violence, where I work relatively quickly when we're not in a recovery state. Like I said, it takes about 10 to 15 minutes to get to work on a normal day without the volume we're dealing with today, and so I really enjoy being where I am, raising my family along the coast and the Florida lifestyle that we have all become accustomed to, especially our coastal waters, which were, which are, a real big draw for many people like me that like to fish and swim, you know, in the Gulf waters, like to, you know, walk along our beaches and joy, you know, the beach with our families. So that proximity is really important and you know, I think, yeah, the answer is yes, but I've made the choice to live in a home that is elevated, that, if there is a storm event, you know we didn't develop underneath our home, you know, of course, our hurricane safe room is, you know, needs to be elevated, but other than that you know, our home was pretty resilient to the storm and I think that people need to make make choices to have homes that are they're going to be able to make it through the next category three, four or five storm. They want to be along the coast.

James Evans:

That's a choice they have to make and be ready to live in a state of recovery for a year, year and a half to two years as we rebuild, and they can't depend on FEMA to rebuild their home. They can't, you know, depend on government assistance. They have to make the choice to have the resources to be able to rebuild on their own. And we get to a point with insurance where insurance just isn't going to be there to recover, help us recover, and we may have to self-insure. So you know, it's really going to limit the folks that will be able to live in those coastal areas that are subject to the next storm event. So I think the free market, you know, is starting to play a bigger role in deciding who can and cannot live along the coast. So I think that's something that we'll all be dealing with here in the future.

George Siegal:

And I know people here in Tampa that are struggling to get insurance and we didn't get that storm. It missed us. So I guess my question would be how are people in Sanibel? How are people in Fort Myers? Are insurance companies still insuring them? Did their rates go up astronomically? So it's just ridiculous and it has to have an effect.

James Evans:

It is absolutely having an effect. I've heard of people that are paying, you know, $25,000, $30,000 for a flood premium. I've heard people that have been completely dropped, and our organization, our wind insurance. They want to drop three of our properties for wind insurance and their properties that didn't have. We didn't have a single wind claim during Hurricane Ian, but yet our insurance and our risk managers are assessing, you know, whether or not we're going to be able to get wind insurance on the buildings that we have. Again, didn't have a wind claim, no impact to any of the roof structures from almost a category five storm with sustained winds over 130 miles an hour, approaching 150 miles an hour, no wind claim, but yet we're being dropped, and so I think the insurance companies are going to have to take another look. But again, I just don't know that. You know, many of the people that are living along the coast and subject to the next storm will be able to get that insurance that they need for the next storm.

George Siegal:

Are people having trouble getting their claims paid? Because I think that recent legislation by here in Florida that took away the right to get attorney's fees if you have to sue your insurance company. My feeling is, what? What incentive does the insurance company have to pay the little guy's claim, knowing that if I fight you I may end up with only half of it because I'm gonna have to pay my lawyer to go get my money? I mean, it just seems like we're all getting screwed.

James Evans:

Yeah. So unfortunately, the legislature is not making things easy for you know, for for the voters, for the people that live and work here in in Florida. It's not only on, you know, the hurricane flames, but they've done the same thing as it relates to Land use issues. We're dealing with the same issue at South Seas Island resort when, if we would have challenged the you know the Lee plan itself, we would have been subject to the, the prevailing attorneys fees, and and so what that means is that if they run the run the bill up to a million dollars, they could put organizations like ours Under, and so we have to pick and choose.

James Evans:

You know what battles we want to, you know we want to take on when it comes to Challenging those issues and let Florida legislature right now is looking at a bill that would make the Environmental groups and and citizen suits when it comes to challenging environmental perverts with the deep, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, the water management districts. They would have to pay those prevailing party attorneys fees as well. So I think the legislature is making it very challenging for, for you know, the voters, the people, the property owners, to be able to recover from the next storm and be able to maintain Equality of life and speak out. It's really catering To the insurance companies, the developers and others To win.

George Siegal:

Yeah, and there is insurance fraud. I know there are people that ruin it for the good people, but I've heard too many stories of Elderly people or just people whose house was damaged and the insurance company just didn't feel like paying them and those people are so upside down because of that and to not be able to go after them and make them accountable it's just mind-boggling to me, and you know I'm probably guilty for helping a lot of those people get elected or voting for them, but I'm scratching my head going. Who are they representing?

James Evans:

Yeah, I completely agree. And the question is you know, why would you paint everyone with the same brush? Go after the. The insurance companies should spend the resources they need to go after those fraudulent claims. You know require the documentation. Go after those fraudulent claims.

James Evans:

You know I know many people hired, you know private insurance adjusters and they've been able to, you know, really, you know, get a great return on those on those claims. But you know those folks that aren't doing going through that process maybe Are being underpaid for their claims and things like that. So I would I think the insurance companies really need to focus on the fraud that's occurring. There's. There's places outside of the impacted area there that are being paid out. I know this happened after Hurricane Charlie as well, where you know people were making claims well outside of the area impacted by Hurricane Charlie and they were being paid. So I think the insurance companies need to do their due diligence and not paint everyone with the same you know broad brush and Adopt in the Florida. Legislators should not be adopting legislation that harms, you know, the. You know the, the little person that is trying to just build back after a major storm like hurricane Ian. Oh, absolutely, I mean.

George Siegal:

It's like what they're doing is just saying we had a problem, you're cutting into our profits, so we're just going to punish everybody and that'll teach you, and Instead they should have done a better job at doing their job. They should have done inspections before they insured a property. There's, there's, so many things they could have done and the legislature could have put it at a dendem in there. So the average person who an insurance company bullies and they do it all the time has a recourse to fight back and it's just disgusting that they don't have that anymore. We don't have that anymore.

James Evans:

We don't and it makes it very challenging. And these, you know the rates continue to climb and you know there's there's properties that you know inland that weren't impacted at all and of course they have to share the risk. You know they have to spread that risk across. You know big geographic areas, but I know of folks that are well inland, that are that are, you know, suggest that they're being responsible. They're not building along the coast and yet their insurance premiums continue to climb and they live nowhere near the coast and and you know they're they're concerned about that. They should be. If you're punished for making a smart choice, it's like what?

George Siegal:

do you? Do you just throw up your arms and go? What chance do I have with With these knuckleheads that are running everything? So if you had to give some takeaway to the people that are running everything, so if you had to give some takeaway points here you kind of touched on it a little while ago. But what can I do as a Floridian to give myself, my family, our best chance of surviving the next big storm?

James Evans:

Well, I think number one don't build your home in an area that's vulnerable to the next major storm and storm surge event and you have to make a choice for your you know, for you and your family, where you want to live. But do your homework. Make sure that the home that you're purchasing is not a home that was flooded during the last storm event, that your home is built above the female flood elevation and maybe do yourself a favor and go a little higher. Don't do the bare minimum, recognizing, with sea level rise and climate change, that sea levels are going to continue to climb and that you don't want to be in a situation where you're building right at that minimum level. You know. Go as high as you can. Make sure that you you know, have a builder that's building to the Florida building code and maybe beyond. Again, don't do the minimum necessary. Put on a few extra straps, Make sure that you're you know you're tie downs or make you know holding down your roof and connecting the entire building envelope. You know, use spray foam insulation. That kind of ties the entire structure together, which not only will make the building more structurally sound, but it will also improve the energy efficiency of that building, reducing your carbon footprint. That could contribute or reduce your carbon footprint and maybe that could be contributing to climate change.

James Evans:

So I think there are things that people need to do Make sure that you, you know evacuate when there's a storm event.

James Evans:

Don't wait around and think you're going to hunker down and weather the storm.

James Evans:

There are many people on Fort Myers Beach and in Southwest Florida that lost their lives because they thought they could weather the storm and never, ever, anticipated a 12 foot storm surge.

James Evans:

I really think that the model that Sanibel has you know, the model that Sanibel is, following this idea that less is more, preserving more of the land for conservation and reducing their, their developed area and infrastructure on the island, and concentrating that to 30 percent instead of, you know, developing the entire island really took a lot of the development out of harm's way. Again, could you imagine what Sanibel would look like if 100 percent of the island was developed instead of 30 percent? So, and then, last but not least, development on barrier islands should be minimized. You know, we know that barrier islands are the first line of defense when it comes to these major storm events and storm surge. Trying to reduce our footprint on the barrier islands not not trying to find ways to justify more development, like we're seeing at South Seas Island Resort. We should be reducing our footprint on these barrier islands, not finding ways to justify more.

George Siegal:

Yeah, and you did briefly kind of mention one thing that I think is also a problem, and that's disclosure. When you, when you're trying to buy something and you want to know the history, you didn't actually say disclosure. But in Florida you don't have to tell them if your house is flooded before. So if I'm buying a property in Fort Myers Beach or or or Sanibel, I can probably assume it's flooded now, but in a lot of places around our state a house has been underwater before or had water and they don't have to tell the person buying it. That's just another headscratcher.

James Evans:

So I'm glad you brought that up because it is a headscratcher.

James Evans:

I'm hearing every day about properties on Sanibel, even in my own neighborhood, and I'll give you an example in a minute of properties that right after the storm, you know, contractors went in there, homeowner went in there and they gutted their entire structure, they rebuilt it without permits and they put it immediately back in the market.

James Evans:

And the property in my own neighborhood, my property right behind my home, when, during hurricane, you know, ian, you know I have video of water being six inches from the gutter of a ground level home behind my home that building was closed out. You know FEMA paid out the flood, you know, you know, paid out the flood claim and that property was sold. The property owner that bought the property came in there. They gutted it no permits, gutted it, rebuilt that home and they're living in there today and I imagine it'll probably change hands again and you know, I don't know that it will ever be disclosed unless somebody does their due diligence and the research necessary to ensure that they know that that home was flooded and there's a good chance it will be flooded during the next major storm event.

George Siegal:

And I think that's why we need to just have it where that becomes a no-brainer, that everybody just asks that question when they're buying a property. That you demanded A house should have a car fax report. You know that has its history. And first, if you buy a house down there and you don't ask that question, I think you're crazy. Maybe you're looking for a bargain, but you know if you're buying a house that's not permitted, if you're buying a house that's flooded, ask a million questions and hold them accountable so you know what you're buying.

James Evans:

I completely agree, and you should ask for the elevation certificate, know what the elevation is of the property you're considering buying and then start to look at the storm surge maps that have been provided by the US Geological Survey, lee County. You know all of the local governments have flood maps that show you know where the storm surge was and the areas that were impacted and compare that with your elevation certificate. And if your realtor which unfortunately the realtors don't always know because the homeowners don't disclose that and the realtors always don't dive into whether or not that home was flooded so I think you need to go beyond the realtor and do your own homework, do your own due diligence, because it's really on you.

George Siegal:

Yeah, it's almost like a lawyer not asking their client if they really did it, because then you have a hard time representing them. So I can understand why realtors are motivated a certain way, but somebody's got to be the stand up person here and do the right thing, and, in lieu of not believing that anybody else is going to do it, you have to do it yourself.

James Evans:

I completely agree and I have a friend that is a realtor and they actually asked the question did this home flood? And the homeowner said no, they had an open house last weekend and a neighboring realtor showed up to their open house and told them this home was flooded and told all of the folks that were at that open house that the home was flooded. And, lo and behold, the home was flooded and they asked that question. So you know you have unscrupulous, you know homeowners that want to turn, turn the property, that don't want to, you know that don't want to lose a sale or they don't want to have the home discounted because it was flooded and they're really just passing their headache on to the next homeowner, which is, in my opinion, very unethical and buyer beware.

George Siegal:

Absolutely Well. On that happy note, thank you so much for coming on. You have so much great information and I wish you guys the best down there. I mean, like I say I want, I'm rooting for Sanibel because I want to come back there and start going there again every year. It's just such an amazing place and I know you got a tough road ahead.

James Evans:

Well, we're excited to have you back and it was really a pleasure participating in your podcast, and you do great work. I really appreciate the service that you provide to homeowners, educating them on what they should be doing to protect themselves and how we can make our communities more resilient. So again, thank you so much and excited to see you when you're in town and give me a call and then we'll grab lunch.

George Siegal:

Absolutely Looking forward to it. Thanks, james, great Thank you. If you have a story, good or bad, about your home or the road back from a disaster for your community, there's a contact form in the show notes. Fill it out and you could be a guest on an upcoming episode. I've also included the link to the film I'm working on called Built to Last Buyer Beware. I hope you'll check it out and follow our progress. This film is going to be a wake up call for a lot of people as to why we need to do everything we can to have the safest house possible. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.

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George Siegal

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