Homeowners Be Aware

Not All Plumbers Are Created Equal with Matt O'Rourke

• George Siegal • Season 2 • Episode 130

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Are you equipped to navigate the maze of hiring a competent plumber or confronting a plumbing issue in your home? This episode dives into the essential world of plumbing, featuring Matt O'Rourke, a veteran with over 25 years of experience in the industry. We will sort out the complexities of plumbing, from understanding the importance of hiring the right person for your specific needs to distinguishing between different types of plumbers and their areas of expertise. This episode is more than just a discussion; it's a toolkit for anyone looking to make informed decisions about plumbing in their home. Whether you're facing a plumbing crisis or planning a new construction, the expertise shared here promises to empower homeowners with the knowledge to tackle plumbing challenges with confidence.

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George Siegal:

If your house had a plumbing problem, are you confident you could pick up the phone and get the right person out to fix it? If you're building a house, do you have that same confidence in the plumbing crew your builder is using? That raises the question are there enough qualified plumbers out there that we can count on at all? My guest today is Matt O'Rourke. He's been involved in the plumbing, sewer and drain industry for more than 25 years. He's been involved in the plumbing, sewer and drain industry for more than 25 years.

George Siegal:

He's going to take us inside the walls of your home, giving us important information that can make the difference between success and failure in taking care of your plumbing issues. I'm George Siegal, and this is Homeowners Be Aware the podcast that teaches you everything you need to know about being a homeowner. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. I appreciate the invite. Now. Anybody that's ever called a plumber knows you can get a good person showing up and you can get a bad person showing up. How important is it to find the right person to do the job? That's a great question.

Matt O'Rourke:

And it's a tough one because you really don't know who you're going to get, and plumbers can range in different levels of experience or skill level. I think the most important thing you can do is really communicate what your expectations are, you know, is it water conditioning, water filtration, is it hot water? So that way, the business or service provider you're calling can pair you with the plumber that's the most experienced in that, and compassion plays a big role in it. If I'm passionate about water heaters or water filtration or conditioning, clearly I'm going to be more experienced and educated on that specific product. And when you think about plumbing, it is huge, right? I mean, there's a lot involved in plumbing, different from faucets to toilets, to drains, to boilers and water heaters. There's all kinds of different things. So, yeah, I'd really try to be upfront and set expectations of what you're looking for when you're hiring a plumber.

George Siegal:

Yeah, I think when I've had the worst experiences is when I've had some of those home warranties where they have somebody that they send out and sometimes I've learned there's a reason that person was available for taking less money for that job and that's frustrating. And then the other time is when you're building a house, or even when you buy a house, whoever the builder used to do their plumbing, that can have a major effect on how that job comes out.

Matt O'Rourke:

Oh, absolutely. And new construction plumbers are different from service plumbers. And then you brought up home warranty, which is a whole different animal because, like you know I'm going to be honest they don't get paid very much. Home warranty companies want the problem fixed is for the lowest cost possible, which is not always the best thing to do.

George Siegal:

Yeah, low bid wins is never a good thing, I think, when it comes to fixing stuff in your house.

Matt O'Rourke:

It really isn't.

George Siegal:

I had a friend who was a plumber one time and I said how do you get away with charging what you do per hour? And he looked at me and he goes it's the tools.

Matt O'Rourke:

He has the right tools to fix things. Now I know it's a lot more than that the tools in the head. And again, be honest, look at the expectation of what you're trying. If you have a leaking toilet and that's a fairly new toilet you just need to fix.

Matt O'Rourke:

That's way different than getting a new toilet, because I don't like sending our customers to Home Depot or Lowe's or any of the box stores you know it doesn't matter which one and say, go pick out what you like and I'll install it, because there are a lot of options out there with new technologies that for some, what they have at those box stores might not be what you really are looking for and you need a plumber that can kind of explain that and educate you on all the different options that are out there. It's like you would never buy a car for one place, right? You're not going to go to a box store and buy a car. You're going to go and hope that the salesperson actually tries to sell you on your expectations, your family, lifestyle, all of those things that play into it.

George Siegal:

Now having the wrong person and what we've learned. Like we have an upstairs bathroom where they didn't put the seal in right when they installed the toilet, and when that happens on the second floor, that water has to go someplace and it ends up on the first floor you can have major problems. How can a homeowner quality control those kind of things?

Matt O'Rourke:

Are you really just at the mercy of whoever the builder chose? Well, you are at the mercy, and you're at the mercy of marketing, right? If a business or a plumbing company does really good at marketing, the chances are you're going to probably find them first and then you're going to call them without knowing who that person is. I obviously looking at reviews. Now you know you don't want somebody that has all five-star reviews, because that's probably not real and we all have issues, we all have mistakes and sometimes you just want to make sure that the business or the plumbing company you're hiring is going to stand behind the work and take care of it no matter what happens. But ultimately, don't just abandon and let them do whatever they want and not check up on them when they're done.

Matt O'Rourke:

We take our customers and I would recommend a homeowner go there, flush it three times with them. There, you know, have them show you what they did. The ones that are going to be really proud of their work are going to want to take you and show you what they did. If they're not doing that or they're rushing, then red flags kind of start to come up. Right, you know, if I like to say this to our plumbers educate the homeowner as a homeowner, if you don't clearly understand what they did and what you paid for, that's probably a good start to a sign that something's not right you know. We should be able to educate you so you understand exactly what the problem was and what we did to fix it and ask for options.

George Siegal:

You know, because there's always options. Yeah, those five star reviews are always sketchy to me. If there's, if there's too many of them, it just means you have a big family and a lot of friends. I like the two or three star, where the company actually goes on there and says, well, what can we do to make this right for you? Or they explain. Sometimes the customer is just a total a-hole and they're the problem. But you'll learn more from those.

Matt O'Rourke:

A hundred percent. It tells a story right. So the more you can tell a story about the business you're hiring. And again I think it goes back to there are really good plumbing companies for new construction type plumbing. There are really good companies that snake drains and get sewers open and excavating. And there's really good companies for water conditioning and water filtration. But that doesn't mean the new construction plumber is gonna be able to educate you on water conditioning and water filtration or water softeners. So you really wanna find a plumber that you can trust that's gonna be open and honest with you. When they say you know what, that's not what I'm an expert in. Let me find somebody who can help you. And it might be going to a manufacturer, it might be going to a local wholesaler or plumbing supply store and say, hey, who do you know that has installed this or who do you know that can help with that and get some real world industry guidance or suggestions as far as that goes.

George Siegal:

So the person who fixes a drain or a clogged toilet is not necessarily the person I want for my water softener or the RO system. Yeah, most likely, not.

Matt O'Rourke:

Yeah, yeah, they might be great at doing one thing, but plumbing, again, it's a huge industry. They might be great at doing one thing, but plumbing, again, it's a huge industry. And you know we, we bring water in, we take water out dirty water, heat water condition and filter water. And I promise you I'm a master plumber. I've been doing this a long time. I'd like to think I know quite a bit, but there's no question, I'm not an expert in all of it.

George Siegal:

Now, I think women can do anything men can do. Why are there not more female plumbers? It seems like it's a male-dominated profession.

Matt O'Rourke:

So, believe it or not, that is changing. We have five locations that now have female plumbers and apprentices. You know, I think the world's changing. You know I came in the industry in the 90s and I think when I grew up, it was great-grandfather, grandfather, dad, son that's who's going to be in the trades, going all the way back from the beginning of the United States. Well then, I think in the 80s it was college, college, college, college, and then technology came and I think that broke right. So the education piece kind of stepped in and people, in a way, almost shamed young people for going into the industry or the trades. It was like, hey, why aren't you going to college? Hey, why don't you have a college degree? I think that hurt the trades for a long time. Um, I think that hurt the trades for a long time.

Matt O'Rourke:

Um, well then, fast forward into, you know, covid and people started really looking at the trades as, hey, this is an essential industry, right, people are still working. Or look at college debt. You know, I've I've got $150,000 of college debt I got to pay off and I'm only making 50, $60,000 a year coming out of college with this degree that I was told I had to get. And you know now I think, going to your question with you know young women are looking at hey wait. You know what other opportunities are there besides that college degree. And you know, today, equipment there's a lot. You know strength. All of that is starting to become a little bit easier with all the tools and and especially equipment and dollies and all that good stuff. So, um, but yeah, I think that's changing. I think you're going to see a change a lot faster too.

George Siegal:

Yeah, I think that, um, you know, people realize they can pay off that college debt with one or two house calls. No, I'm kidding, I think that's such an important thing and to have the right person come out. And I find, you know, looking on social media groups, finding neighbors that have used people, and then when you call, it's finding somebody that's, as you say, sends the right person out, because the wrong person can really set you back when they come out and try to do a job, horribly, and I want to be clear too education is very important.

Matt O'Rourke:

It's just, how do we educate the young people? In any career path we're, we're all at the mercy of, you know, whatever university you go to or whatever trade school you go to, or whatever you know in our world the plumber I decided to join to become an apprentice, for I'm going to learn from that person. Well, you know, is that person, have they been educated or how did they come up in the industry? Because, more than likely, that's how they're going to train that young person, right? Well, you know, there's a lot of math and science in plumbing and there's a lot of problem solving. And then we have to communicate with homeowners.

Matt O'Rourke:

You know that alone can be very tricky, right, I'm coming to you. I've never met you before. I'm in your home. Most times I'm in very personal spaces of your home. You know bathrooms and basements and you know, I've seen the hoarders and I've seen the. You know all the differences of people and homeowners. Well, you know, you have to have that relationship and you got to do it rather quickly, right. Build that trust and get you to like me so that way I can communicate appropriately, and so there's a lot that goes into this stuff. So you know, when you're hiring somebody for to do work at your home, you're now you're a. You know you're an interviewer right, you're, you're now a manager, you're hiring people. And you got to approach it like that too, because I think the more for homeowners, the quicker you can establish that comfort level between you and the contractor, the plumber.

George Siegal:

you're going to be able to get more of the truth and really understand and be much more comfortable and confident in their abilities had in businesses that I've run a lot of times is finding good people, because sometimes your business is only as good as the people that you find. Is that a challenge for you guys? Because I know that when I see trades I live in Tampa, florida, and some of the people that have come out here I'm going how are these people in business? They either are late for the appointment, they show up and they give you a bid based on what they saw when they drove up, not necessarily what the job should cost. I mean, there's so many things that can screw it up from a business perspective. So how tough is that?

Matt O'Rourke:

Yeah, it's getting easier, believe it or not, because again we're getting a different type of person that's interested in the trades. So, like in the past, you'd have a really good trades person or mechanical aptitude person, but they were horrible at the soft skills or the punctuality. I like to say plumbers, we are fantastic at math and science. We are all horrible at comprehension for the most part. You know no one likes to read. You know they probably didn't go down that road. But time management you know they probably didn't go down that road, but time management awful. You know over-promise and under-deliver you hear that a lot.

Matt O'Rourke:

When I started the business I started realizing, you know, my plumbing skills isn't what I need to focus on. I need to focus on dispatching, time management, scheduling, marketing. You know you start to shift because what's the most important to people? You know, a lot of times through the years the complaints weren't you did a horrible job plumbing. You didn't show up and you're going to say, yeah, but show up. I took the whole day off work. You know I waited four hours for you. It took a lot longer than I thought.

Matt O'Rourke:

All of those things go into this. Those reviews again tell you a story. They charge me too much. I like to say we're not going to be your Walmart purse, we're not going to be your Louis Vuitton purse, but you're really looking for a contractor that's going to be like a coach purse Not too cheap, not too expensive, but they're going to show up when they say they're going to show up. They're going to do what they say they're going to do and I feel, okay, everything was great, the price, eh. But I don't have any other complaints besides that. You know all A's and maybe a C in price and I think that's what you should really be looking for.

George Siegal:

Now friends of mine, my wife included, feel they're going to get a different price if the woman of the house is home versus the man of the house. They feel like they're going to get taken advantage of. It's like with mechanics, plumbers, electricians trades. I'm sure you don't do that, but does that go on in the industry? You think there's no?

Matt O'Rourke:

question it does. Look. I mean there's two different ways to pay people. You have commission and then you have hourly. You know, and it's tough, right, because a commission plumber there's no question, I feel the ethics start to come in to some degree and then an hourly plumber they might be looking to take more time.

Matt O'Rourke:

Now what? Try to ask enough questions that you understand, as a homeowner, what it is that the plumber is going to be doing and how much. For If you understand what's going to be done and the reason why it has to be done and how much it's going to be, know that before that work starts so you can approve it, and then you'll feel comfortable and confident and don't listen to everybody else saying, oh, you overpaid for this or my cousin could have done it for this price, that much cheaper. As a homeowner, if you know you have a plumbing problem, you want it fixed, and you set expectations and the work's completed for an agreed upon price, then that's a win and I feel like that's the best approach to take this because I promise you a plumber can charge $50 an hour or $600 an hour. It really does come down to what is. What are you having done at your home and are you comfortable with the price you paid and you understand what was done with that agreed upon price.

George Siegal:

I always love it when someone says my cousin can do it. I've had that when I've gone out and bid for video projects and somebody goes oh, you know, I bid $10,000 for a job one time and the guy goes well, my cousin said he could do it for a thousand and I said you want me to match that? I go. No, I said, but would you do me a favor and show me that video when it's done? I would love to see what that thousand dollar video is like.

Matt O'Rourke:

I mean, if you're looking for the lowest price, cause, you know, for whatever reason, then, just again, I would say to the plumber as they come in hey look, you know my budget's $200. This is what I'd like to have done. Can you do it or not? And if they say, nope, I'm at $600 and you can't find, you know, I'm not saying don't negotiate, because here's another thing too. You know, if you're having a plumber come to your house and do a small little task, you know, let's just say your bathroom sink is slow draining, now that's probably a pretty easy fix, right, it's probably just, you know, a bunch of hair or gunk and we can get that clean. And you're going to pay a higher rate just because we still made the trip out there.

Matt O'Rourke:

And you know, a lot of companies might charge an hour minimum. But if you say, hey, I want, here's a long laundry list of things that I'd like to have done or, you know, this faucet's leaking, this water heater's not working, this drain's slow, I promise you, the more you have done, it starts to bring that rate down as far as having. You know, now we have more things to do and we could probably get a couple more things done in the same amount of time as it would take us to do something very simple. So again, I would really caution homeowners the more you can save our time as plumbers by saying, okay, here's what I got, here's our budget. There's nothing wrong with with kind of negotiating that Cause plumbing isn't like hey, here's a you know, a pound of strawberries and it costs $8. You know it.

Matt O'Rourke:

it really is it's fair to be negotiating. You know to some degree, but yeah, never hurts to ask. You're comparing apples to apples. Did I come to you on a Saturday on time and show up and you know professional and I'm going to protect your property. I'm going to give you a warranty, I'm going to stand behind my work. There's value to that right.

George Siegal:

Absolutely. Now where should I be buying my plumbing products? Should I be going to places like Lowe's and Home Depot? Should I go to a supply store? If I have to go get something, what's the best course for me to follow?

Matt O'Rourke:

Yeah, I'm not saying do not go to the retail box stores, but they're very limited in the supplies and I promise you what you find in a retail box store is not the same quality as what you will find in a plumbing wholesale or a plumbing store. A good example is power tools. The power tools that you buy at those stores are not the same quality and make than if you went to a real tool store. They might look the same but they might be made out of the country. There's a price point right, and there's no question the higher the price, the quality should be going up. My biggest recommendation would be to find a manufacturer and go to their website, plumbing especially. There is just not enough space on those shelves at those stores to show you all the latest and greatest and the new technologies coming out. And then you're again. You're. You're limiting yourself to a specific brand and, for an example, navi and water heaters.

Matt O'Rourke:

Most home motor probably will never, ever see that and that is a very good water heater and it's tankless, it's a limited water heater and they are awesome, but you're not going to find it at one of the stores that most people can walk into.

Matt O'Rourke:

So I would do a lot of research. I think the more research you do online and you know whether it's Google, searching or looking through trade magazines you can. There's a lot of really neat things out there that people just aren't aware of and again you're at the mercy of that plumber coming to your door. If that plumber doesn't know about it, or educating themselves, or they've been in this industry for 20 years and they're still doing the same thing 20 years ago as today, then you got, you're going to. You're going gonna get limited to what options you have. Um so long answer, but I would definitely find your local wholesaler. Uh, walk in there, they have coffee and popcorn and pop and you know, just start asking questions, say hey, tell me the latest and greatest hang on one second I gotta let my dog out this door, yeah home shows are cool too.

Matt O'Rourke:

Oh, got it. What's that? Yeah, home shows you know yes you can. You can get a lot of really cool information and meet a lot of neat people there.

George Siegal:

Yeah, my challenge has always been and it's gotten a lot better in places like lowes and home depots is finding help. Um, and when you walk into some of those supply houses there seem to be very knowledgeable people that help you pretty quickly.

Matt O'Rourke:

Oh, and they can refer you too.

George Siegal:

Yeah, no, that's good.

Matt O'Rourke:

Another thing you can do is go to your local municipality and your building department. They can't refer people to you, but you can say, hey, can you give me a list of companies that have pulled permits or have done this type of work? And you get a pretty good beat on who is a reputable or somebody you can trust Now.

George Siegal:

Most plumbing repairs, though, don't need to be permitted, do they? I know people get in trouble when they don't get permits for certain things, but it's not like adding on an extension at your house. If somebody is putting a new water heater in, that's not. You don't need a permit for that.

Matt O'Rourke:

Replacing water here you do, actually replacing a toilet, you don't or a faucet or fixing anything but. But even outside of that, the building departments are going to know who's doing things at least the right way, because normally when people have complaints or people you know maybe give a down payment or pay for a service and then it's not, they don't show back up or something goes wrong. The first complaint is usually to the local building department, so you know if there's something shady going on. They probably have an idea who that person is.

George Siegal:

Well, that's interesting, though you surprised me with that. So if I replaced a, I have a tankless water heater. Even a tankless water heater would need to be permitted if they put a new one, or is it just the big old hot water heater?

Matt O'Rourke:

No, any water heater. Any water heater replacement definitely has to be permitted.

George Siegal:

Interesting. That's good to know. I bet a lot of people never would even think to ask that.

Matt O'Rourke:

No, there's a lot of misconceptions, right. Just because you pull a permit for a water heater does not mean that inspector is going to come into your house and say, oh, you got all these other things wrong. That's not the case. And then you're in Tampa, so in Tampa your electric water it's probably electric tankless, right, I think?

George Siegal:

it's. I think it runs on natural gas but you know what this is my stupidity? I don't know.

Matt O'Rourke:

Yeah, in Florida there's gas isn't very common, right, and you know not to get too technical, but there's what we call temperature rise, right? So in the northern states I'm up in Michigan Our groundwater is about 45 degrees and we have to heat it up to about 120 degrees to get the hot water, so that's an 80 degree temperature rise. So on a tankless your gallons per minute drop. Well, in Florida your groundwater is about 65, 70 degrees, so that gap is much smaller. The delta you know the change in temperature, so you can get away with electricity a lot more. Electricity just doesn't work in the northern states.

Matt O'Rourke:

But that's a good. You know, you bring up a good point. You don't know if you have a gas or electric water heater, right. So when you're calling for a plumber, you know they start asking questions. It's going to be harder for you to be able to figure out. And that's where I think we really try to educate homeowners, right. Because you know if you go on vacation or you go on a cruise and you're gone for a couple weeks, there are things that you can do to prevent really bad things from happening. But it also will help you when you get a plumber that might not know what they're talking about, or trying to oversell you, or maybe just something's not right. It'll be easier for a homeowner to understand hey, wait, that doesn't seem right and start asking questions and ultimately say, well, maybe I'll get another opinion.

George Siegal:

Yeah, I mean, I'm the first to admit. Although I do a podcast called homeowners, be aware, I like to let the experts you know tell me what certain things you know. I just found out recently our generator needed oil if it ran for more than a couple of days. They never told me that. So there's so many things homeowners don't know, and if you don't take the time to find out that knowledge on your own, you don't find out until it's an emergency and then you need it. If my hot tankless water heater broke today, I would not know the answer. Now my guess is that it runs on natural gas. But you're absolutely right, I have no idea.

Matt O'Rourke:

Well, and then, based on you telling me you have a generator, now I'm pretty confident it's on natural gas, right?

George Siegal:

Yeah, so there's certain things we assume, but there's still so many things we don't know as homeowners. Exactly right, and you're very trustworthy.

Matt O'Rourke:

Obviously You're calling in an expert and you're assuming that he's an expert, or she's an expert and they might be fantastic at snaking grains or, you know, doing water filtration again, but they might have never worked on a tankless water heater doing water filtration again, but they might have never worked on a tankless water heater.

George Siegal:

Yeah, I'll tell you, when we went to get a generator, the spread of price was $20,000 from one company to another. That's a dramatic difference. So somebody was trying to rip us off and that's always a disappointment. So although I rely on other people, I don't trust very many people. How many estimates should I get on a job? Normally Depends on the job.

Matt O'Rourke:

It depends on the how you like that person who's coming to sell you the job. You know, truly here's. You know, let's take your tankless water heater for an example. You know, if that stops working and you call a plumber that doesn't know that manufacturer of water heater that you have installed, instead of repairing it, they're going to give you a price to replace it. And that could be a matter of spending a couple hundred bucks versus a few thousand dollars. Right, and again, going back to that, you know I would highly recommend you, a homeowner, going to the manufacturer's website.

Matt O'Rourke:

So if you've got a water heater and let's say your tankless is a Renai or a Navion or a Bosch, go to the manufacturer and then just do enough browsing so you feel a little bit more comfortable and confident in what you're talking about. Then when that person comes out to give you a price or a bid, again go. That number should correlate with what they're doing, and if it doesn't make sense to you, then your intuition needs to kick in and be like something's not right here. You know it doesn't make sense, it's not rocket science. I promise you guys this. I mean plumbing. Is you got clean water coming in? You got dirty water coming out and then you've got some components in the middle that heat it up and, you know, maybe filter it a little bit more, but outside of that there's really not much more.

Matt O'Rourke:

So if someone's trying to oversell you or the proposal is very limited or not written, you know, I like to say if it's not written, it's not real. And I also like to see options Right, like to see options right. So when you're looking at proposals or how many bids to get you know I wouldn't spend a ton of time, because it's not fair to the contractor and it's not fair to yourself either. That's why I like to say be open and honest. You know what is your budget. I would rather come in and help you get the project done within your budget versus you trying to make me guess where I need to be to get the work. You know, if you like them and trust them, you can work with them, because they're going to be coming in and out of your house.

George Siegal:

Yeah, that's always the game. Who says the price first? Now I asked you to come up with something funny or interesting about yourself, and I thought it was really interesting that you're deathly afraid of heights and small spaces. Now I can see how you could avoid heights as a plumber, but I don't know how you could avoid small spaces.

Matt O'Rourke:

How challenging is that, Ben it's tunnel vision, right, don't look around you and just stay focused, right. It's a funny, quick, funny story. After college I knew I was in nursing school and then I ended in business. But I'm like this isn't for me. And back then trading spaces was coming around and on TV. So I'm like, oh, the, the trades is something you know, or a home improvement. I think I'd be interested.

Matt O'Rourke:

Well, my first go at it was a roofing apprenticeship and I showed up there the first day. I I I didn't get on the roof, george. I looked up there. I'm like, yeah, there's no way I'm getting on this roof. So I just happened to fall into plumbing and you know plumbers go very deep into the ground and I'm like I have no fear of going, you know, 35 feet underground to get to the sewers and drains, but to this day you get me up higher than six feet. I'm shaking, I just do not feel comfortable and of course you have to overcome that because we have to get on roofs.

Matt O'Rourke:

But I did my apprenticeship in downtown detroit back before detroit really was making its um revitalization and I would go into this crawl space and it was underneath a gymnasium floor in a high school and it was a friday afternoon, probably around four o'clock, and there was all kinds of bad stuff down there you know the bugs and all that and it was dark. So I'm just walked crawling through and I'm down there working. About an hour goes by and I hear these steps and I'm like what in the world is going on? I turn around, it's this you know older gentleman and he's like what are you doing down here? I'm like I'm fixing. He's like what are you doing down here? I'm like I'm fixing the steam line and what are you doing down here? He's like well, I'm the inspector, I was just calling to see what you guys were doing and like you crawled all the way back here on a Friday afternoon.

Matt O'Rourke:

It was pretty crazy. But yeah, it's, it's it's. It's interesting because I've been in some of the coolest places. I've been in some of the coolest places. I've been in the attic of a cathedral Blessed Sacrament Cathedral in Detroit and churches. Yesterday I was actually in Boston.

Matt O'Rourke:

I was on the 40th floor of the Ritz-Carlton, overlooking Charles River and Harvard and Cambridge, I mean really cool, but yeah, there's times where I don't know how I do what I do because you just have to suck it up and get it done.

George Siegal:

It's there's times where I I don't know how I do what I do, Cause you just have to suck it up and get it done, Right. Yeah, and I know a lot of people that make jokes about Detroit, but I lived there for three years and thought it was great. I mean, there's the people that are great. It's. It's there's parts of the city, but there are a lot of great parts.

Matt O'Rourke:

I love it and it is come a long ways. I don't know when you lived here, but it's pretty neat to see a lot of young people moving down there and the buildings are cool All of our sports stadiums.

George Siegal:

Detroit's got a great restaurant scene and nightlife. It's really cool place, yep. The only complaint I have is the weather too damn cold in the winter and I do not like cold weather. We're at 19 degrees right now. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean. I remember days. I was a weatherman there and so my job was to be outside when the weather was bad. Telling you not to go outside, I was miserable.

Matt O'Rourke:

Well, I get to come to Tampa. My daughter was accepted to the University of South Florida, so we're going to be touring there Friday Fantastic.

George Siegal:

Yeah, my daughter went there and it's a great school Good Fantastic. Yeah, my daughter went there and it's a great school Good deal. Yeah, she's really going to love it here. It's a great place to live. So final piece of advice for people if you have a problem and you need to call a plumber, give me your best advice.

Matt O'Rourke:

I know we've talked about it, but let's wrap it up with that, I would. Brand image does mean a lot. You know. I think plumbers a lot like Dennis, when you find a plumber, usually you're going to keep that plumber. So ask around.

Matt O'Rourke:

Obviously your own network is probably the best place to start and read reviews. And again, I like the three. You know, maybe not so much the two, depending on what it is, but the three and four stars. I put a little bit more weight in those. And be careful too, because reviews, people are all kinds of sorts of different right, so what might be important to you might not be quite the same. So even when you're on that phone call, I would ask those questions what type of products do you install? What manufacturers do you work with? Where do you buy your parts? I would try to stay away from the plumbers that go to the Home Depot and Lowe's all the time. The ones that say they actually work in the plumbing industry are going to be the experts. The ones that go to Home Depot buy all their parts. I promise you those aren't what your expert plumbers. They're not going to Home Depot and Lowe's to buy their product.

George Siegal:

Okay, last question, and I have to ask this because I see it all the time when we're walking our dogs in the neighborhood, we see trades that are out at the street. The guys are all smoking and then they go in to do their job. And I'm thinking, when somebody walks into my house as a non-smoker and they've been smoking out by the curb, that drives me crazy. What do you, what do you guys do about that?

Matt O'Rourke:

That's well, that's the difference between a new construction plumber and a service plumber. Quite honestly, you know your service plumbers. They're not going to probably be standing out in the street smoking, okay. So again, you can't just use the word plumber and expect that you're going to get a plumber. That's where you really got treated is like an interview. You know what are the experts in.

Matt O'Rourke:

If you're putting an addition on your house, then yeah, you're going to get the plumbers that are probably smoking and they're going to be great at it, but it's not the same as what I I like to use the word retail.

Matt O'Rourke:

Most homeowners, if they're coming to your house, you're looking for a retail plumber, a plumber that is going to come in, educate you, give you options and know what products put in your home. If you're building a new house, you do not want a retail plumber, you want a construction plumber, and those are probably the plumbers are going to be smoking and standing out at the trucks and you know they're not going to have the wrap trucks or the logos. But you also don't want to pay retail rates to do that type of plumbing work. So just know that there's a difference and you probably got. I'll try to sum this up in three ways You've got your drain cleaners, you've got your retail plumbers that do service work in finished plumbing and then you've got your construction plumbers. Know that there's those three differences and then ask those questions because that'll help you understand the pricing and what you're going to get when you call one.

George Siegal:

Now, what about the guy you see advertising on TV or on the billboards, or the ones that are spending a lot of money marketing? Do they tend to cost more?

Matt O'Rourke:

Absolutely Right Cost of doing business. Now, with that being said, they also have a little bit more to lose, right, because they're named out there, you know who they are, and so you're going to get a better job. They're going to be a little bit more money. Hopefully, they're still fair, right. Those are great ones to have in your phone, though, because when you need them at nights and weekends, that's who's going to answer their phone.

George Siegal:

Yeah, that's when things always seem to break on a Saturday or late at night when it's like, okay, that's going to cost me more.

Matt O'Rourke:

Oh and look, we want people to try to do things on their own that they can, and we'll even say hey, look, this is something that you can do if you want to watch. Just don't do it on a Sunday morning.

George Siegal:

And then is DIY risky. I know I keep throwing questions at you, but I know that changed a lot of things where people try things that maybe they shouldn't. I don't think people should mess around with electrical unless they know what they're doing, but plumbing can be a little safer unless you strip something when you're taking it off or you do something.

Matt O'Rourke:

Think ahead, youtube is awesome. I mean YouTube has changed the way we do plumbing. I mean you can? I like to tell people read instructions. The only difference with plumbers reading instructions, we can actually follow them Right, so we understand what they're saying.

Matt O'Rourke:

But, you know if you're going to do something, um, think three, four or five steps ahead, you know. Do you have your towels ready? Do you have your buckets ready? Do you know where to shut the water off or the gas off If you're going to? If you're going to, you know, try to replace that toilet on your own. Know where to shut the water off first, so in case something does go haywire, you have that. Maybe you know who your plumber is, or you've already got the? Hey, I'm going to give this a shot, but I'm going to have that plumber on speed dial, just in case. You can really do a lot nowadays, george.

Matt O'Rourke:

I think the manufacturers have done a fantastic job with putting content out there to help people do it on their own. Quite honestly, a lot of the products aren't that hard to install, unless you're getting into the tankless and the bidet seats and all of that. Really, I'm telling you, if there's anything, there's a lot more out there that people know. That would really make your life a lot nicer. You know as far as bidet seats and tankless water heaters and kudos to you for having that but yeah, just know where your water shutoffs are. Try to understand what could go wrong. So that way you're a little bit prepared for it. If it does.

Matt O'Rourke:

You know, I think my biggest advice is know your plumbing. You know, go underneath your sinks, turn the valves on and off. You know the old saying if it's not broke, don't fix it. That can lead to a lot more problems than going there. And actually, you know turning the water on and off periodically and testing things if you don't use it. You know, if you got that big jacuzzi tub and you don't use it ever, you know, run the water there every every month. Um, and take tours of your home and go in the basements once in a while. Uh, test it all out, cause the more you do that, the longer that stuff's going to last.

George Siegal:

Yeah, that's great advice. And then you know it's like with a pool heater you don't heat your pool for six months. You'd go to use it and it's not working. Those things can't just sit around and not get used.

Matt O'Rourke:

No, they freeze up. You know, they actually literally lock up, so especially in Detroit. Yeah, exactly right.

George Siegal:

Yeah, hey, matt, thank you so much for coming on today. Great advice People can reach you. You're going to give me, you gave me some social networking links that people can get in touch with you.

Matt O'Rourke:

Absolutely Yep and I appreciate the invite.

George Siegal:

And this is really cool. If you have a story about your house, good or bad, I'd like to hear from you. There's a contact form in the show notes. Fill it out and send it my way and you might be a guest on an upcoming episode. Also, check out the link in the show notes to the trailer for my new documentary film, built to Last Buyer Beware, that's coming out this summer. Thanks for taking the time to listen today. I'll see you next time.

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George Siegal

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